General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

Delvin4519 said:
Why does the MBTA advertise the Track Improvement Program as "reducing travel times", when it is just "restoring normal speed travel times"?

I feel like it is just restoring the travel times that ran near/essentially-full speed pre-FTA inspections in spring 2022 (sans Orange Line in downtown that had it's slow zone near South Cove for ages). It's not like its going to increase the design speed of the tracks from 40 MPH (64 KMH) to 50 MPH (80 KMH). It's just lifting slow orders that prevents full speed operation, so it's restoring travel times, not reducing travel times. If Track Improvement Program were to raise the operating design speed of the tracks and trains from pre-pandemic 40 MPH (64 KMH) to a brand new higher 55 MPH (88 KMH), that would be "reducing travel times".
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We love the T moving the goalposts. A good amount of the Orange and Red Lines once ran at 55 mi/h (as per RFP docs from the fleet procurement that went to CRRC), and I'm told the Riverside line used to run at 50+ and GLX was designed for the same. As an operator, I'd love to do even 40 down the Lechmere Viaduct -- it's a clear line of sight that should be able to support it - yet it's posted at 25 mi/h and that is not a restricted speed, somehow? Better than 10, I guess. It was 10 when I began training.

Delvin4519 said:
In addition, 6 weeks after the great Green Line shutdowns, the Green Line remains noticably slower than it was in the 2 months in early 2023 prior to the systemwide slow order, despite fewer slow zones today than January/February 2023. The Green Line isn't seeing reduced travel times (the fastest the Green Line ran prior to COVID-19 was in Spring 2018), and the T's Track Improvement slides from April 25 notes only 4 minutes (of the promised 28 minutes) were given back to riders on the Green Line after removing 95% of the Green Line's slow zones. If the Green Line is going to see "reduced travel times", then it should be as fast as May 2018. (There were spikes for the OL shutdown and Marathon Monday, but even when removing those spikes, speeds on the Green Line are still slower than even Spring-Summer 2023 after the systemwide slow orders were given. (Kenmore - Haymarket EB, Source: TransitMatters data dashboard)
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Speculation time: We have so many new operators on the Green Line (I'm one of them). The Green Line is way more subject to operator variability than the heavy rail lines. This I have discussed in the past with speeding, but it can go both ways. New operators going too slow is also absolutely a problem. I don't even speed and yet often I catch up to the person who left the terminal 8-12 minutes before I did, in some cases while I'm still in the tunnel. Not only unnecessarily slow driving but also keeping the doors open for far longer than necessary. My instructor said "doors can make the difference between you getting back early or late" and he wasn't kidding. The amount of inconsistent signage re: speeds in the subway can't help -- between Beacon Junction and Kenmore eastbound I have confirmed is 25 but many people still go the 6 or 10 from the areas prior to the junction because they never posted an S-25 sign after the junction. I mentioned the North Station Turnback a while ago. And Boylston to Arlington westbound. has a few damaged S-25 signs, and I've also confirmed they are 25, but some ops do 10 over there.
 
nbcoram said:
Speculation time: We have so many new operators on the Green Line (I'm one of them). The Green Line is way more subject to operator variability than the heavy rail lines. This I have discussed in the past with speeding, but it can go both ways. New operators going too slow is also absolutely a problem. I don't even speed and yet often I catch up to the person who left the terminal 8-12 minutes before I did, in some cases while I'm still in the tunnel. Not only unnecessarily slow driving but also keeping the doors open for far longer than necessary. My instructor said "doors can make the difference between you getting back early or late" and he wasn't kidding. The amount of inconsistent signage re: speeds in the subway can't help -- between Beacon Junction and Kenmore eastbound I have confirmed is 25 but many people still go the 6 or 10 from the areas prior to the junction because they never posted an S-25 sign after the junction. I mentioned the North Station Turnback a while ago. And Boylston to Arlington westbound. has a few damaged S-25 signs, and I've also confirmed they are 25, but some ops do 10 over there.
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This is exactly what more people need to understand. The Green Line is (for the most part) just a tram and incredibly subject to human variables in speed and schedule adherence. Entire long light cycles at major intersections can be missed when an operator decides to kindly reopen doors for passengers arriving after they've closed setting them back minutes. There's also differences in levels of caution taken around pedestrians and cars crossing tracks depending on how experienced or confident operators are with stopping in time for sudden events
 
HenryAlan said:
Yes, like you, I've been following the transition from the start, and it is great to see. The other thing that excites me about how close it has become to the original concept, is that it can now start to also serve as a model for transforming some of the other lines that run through EJ communities. We should be able to achieve something similar for the inner Newburyport/Rockport line, for example. And since it clearly works to increase ridership, why wait?
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Well.. the issue with South Station at least was the lack of space there. I guess this means they have no plans on bringing back full peak service on the other SS lines. I believe the crunch at NS is less of an issue.
 
Aside from the Lechmere Viaduct, which is a very strange case of moving the goalposts, I know that the primary reason for the lowering of speeds for the Riverside Line (and thus the GLX mainline) is the Type 8s. Their poorly-designed center trucks have a bad habit of derailing above 40 mph, and it takes extra rail grinding to keep that from happening. When I was doing my research, one of the higher-ups in track maintenance told me it'd be cheaper to maintain tracks to 50 mph for Type 10s [assuming they don't have truck issues] than they currently spent maintaining to 40 mph for Type 8s. While I'm cynical it will actually happen, it's not unreasonable to hope that some speeds can be increased once the Type 8s are retired.
 
jklo said:
Well.. the issue with South Station at least was the lack of space there. I guess this means they have no plans on bringing back full peak service on the other SS lines. I believe the crunch at NS is less of an issue.
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With 30min being the scheduled run time of the Fairmount under diesel power I'd assume they'd run 2 dedicated trainsets all day that only dwell at the ends long enough for boarding and alighting (and if they're ahead of schedule). Compared to currently where they sit at the ends for ~15min, this would probably free up a slot for a quick turnaround of another train.
 
jklo said:
Well.. the issue with South Station at least was the lack of space there. I guess this means they have no plans on bringing back full peak service on the other SS lines. I believe the crunch at NS is less of an issue.
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The reconfiguration of Tower 1 interlocking at South Station is under way - the main construction contract was awarded last year. That should streamline movements through the "throat" and increase capacity a bit. Additionally, as Koopzilla pointed out, dwell times shouldn't be terribly different, so the platform utilization won't be that different that current.

Also, if some of the increased Fairmount service is Franklin/Foxboro trains diverted from the NEC, then that's both fewer trains coming from the NEC at South Station, and fewer crossover moves north of Readville that limit NEC traffic.
 
Koopzilla24 said:
With 30min being the scheduled run time of the Fairmount under diesel power I'd assume they'd run 2 dedicated trainsets all day that only dwell at the ends long enough for boarding and alighting (and if they're ahead of schedule). Compared to currently where they sit at the ends for ~15min, this would probably free up a slot for a quick turnaround of another train.
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Much more likely that they're running 3 trainsets at all times (+1 trainset on weekdays and +2 on the weekend). Leaving literally 0 time for dwells or schedule recovery would be a recipe for disaster. Ops can and should be improved, but we can't rely on literally perfect schedule adherence. As a frequent Fairmount rider I would be extremely worried if shorter dwells was their sole plan for 30 minute service.
 
Delvin4519 said:
The April 25 2024 edition of the Track Improvement slides is already comically outdated.

1. The Lechmere slow zones were fixed ages ago
2. The Cleveland Circle fall 2024 diversion was cancelled since they did it in the winter shutdowns.
3. The Blue Line diversion at Wonderland is a single diversion, yet it is displayed as 2 diversions (The Bowdoin diversion is a separate diversion that was done as early access)
4. The Orange Line shutdown for June is in the first week of the month, starting after Memorial Day, and it extends to Wellington, not Sullivan.
5. The March diversion of the Orange line started at North Station, not Haymarket.

These changes were made over a month before today's MBTA board meeting. https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/files/2024-04/7. f. TIP Update Full Board 04.25.2024b.pdf
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I think the answer here is that the Track Improvement Program isn't only about slow zones, they're trying to get all the parts of the track up to a better state of repair. So, Items 1 and 2 would still remain because there's still much needed work for sleepers, ballast tamping, rail replacements that are not causing slow zones, but, are maintenance needs.
 
The EGE said:
Aside from the Lechmere Viaduct, which is a very strange case of moving the goalposts, I know that the primary reason for the lowering of speeds for the Riverside Line (and thus the GLX mainline) is the Type 8s. Their poorly-designed center trucks have a bad habit of derailing above 40 mph, and it takes extra rail grinding to keep that from happening. When I was doing my research, one of the higher-ups in track maintenance told me it'd be cheaper to maintain tracks to 50 mph for Type 10s [assuming they don't have truck issues] than they currently spent maintaining to 40 mph for Type 8s. While I'm cynical it will actually happen, it's not unreasonable to hope that some speeds can be increased once the Type 8s are retired.
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Yeah, the 40 mi/h cap on Green being due to the 8's is well-documented. The other cases of moving the goalposts, both on the Green and on the heavy rail, are curious.

Koopzilla24 said:
This is exactly what more people need to understand. The Green Line is (for the most part) just a tram and incredibly subject to human variables in speed and schedule adherence. Entire long light cycles at major intersections can be missed when an operator decides to kindly reopen doors for passengers arriving after they've closed setting them back minutes. There's also differences in levels of caution taken around pedestrians and cars crossing tracks depending on how experienced or confident operators are with stopping in time for sudden events
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Also this -- I get being nice and I try to be nice, but ultimately, if that light is green, I can't always wait, no matter how hard you are running or whether you knock on my door or not. One time I missed a light cycle due to crowding, and then missed another light cycle because the person in back decided to pop their door back open for a runner right as I was starting to move. It's nothing personal (at least not for me) -- many other people are affected sometimes when a door is reopened like that. Many of us know the light cycles well enough to judge whether reopening a door is feasible or not, but many do not. That just comes with experience.
 
If only we had something that could prioritize the train at lights or something crazy like that....

Also, could you imagine at rush "hour" on the 93 parking lot seeing red line trains zipping by at 55-60 mph every 3-4 minutes? Ridership would sky rocket, can't buy advertising that perfect.
 
bakgwailo said:
If only we had something that could prioritize the train at lights or something crazy like that....

Also, could you imagine at rush "hour" on the 93 parking lot seeing red line trains zipping by at 55-60 mph every 3-4 minutes? Ridership would sky rocket, can't buy advertising that perfect.
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IMG_5266.jpeg

This us in the technical requirements for the Red #4 and Orange #14 rolling stock so with the new digital signaling the capability is there to make it safely happen when track work is done and fixed. Full depth track replacement of various parts of the rapid transit system is in the CIP so if its not rebuilt to a 55+ mph standard this year it may be by the time we get all the CRRC Red Line cars delivered
 
More on the Blue Line. They are very much doubling down on the "NO MORE SLOW ZONES" message. Let's see if it holds. Admittedly, looks like a lot got accomplished.

MBTA Makes Significant Progress on Expedited Critical Track Work on Blue Line, Removes 19 Speed Restrictions | News | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.
www.mbta.com www.mbta.com


With unencumbered access to Blue Line stations, crews were [sic] accomplished the following work:

  • Replaced 22,500 feet of rail.
  • Replaced over 9,000 feet of overhead catenary wire.
  • Replaced more than 10,000 ties.
  • Installed 48 composite ties at trip stops.
  • Approximately 41,000 feet of track was surfaced and tamped.
  • Replaced approximately 1,000 feet of full depth track.
  • Replaced approximately 700 feet of restraining rail.
  • Installed approximately 35 switch timbers.
  • Repaired stairways at Wonderland, Orient Heights, and Wood Island.
  • Performed station inspections and standpipe testing.
  • Repaired the operator’s platform within the non-passenger area on Wonderland and operator’s walkway at Orient Heights.
  • Replaced approximately 500 feet of fencing between Beachmont and Revere Beach.
  • Repaired roof canopies at Wood Island, Orient Heights, and Suffolk Downs.
 
Koopzilla24 said:
View attachment 50039
This us in the technical requirements for the Red #4 and Orange #14 rolling stock so with the new digital signaling the capability is there to make it safely happen when track work is done and fixed. Full depth track replacement of various parts of the rapid transit system is in the CIP so if its not rebuilt to a 55+ mph standard this year it may be by the time we get all the CRRC Red Line cars delivered
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Whether they'll actually use that 55+ mi/h spec or not is a whole different ballgame
 
Planning is underway for a new dedicated transitway for the E branch – which could be shared by the 66 and 39 buses as well.

The project needs to be done by 2027 for the new Type 10 trains:

mass.streetsblog.org

Huntington Ave. Redesign Will Eliminate Last Mixed-Traffic Segment of the Green Line By 2027 - Streetsblog Massachusetts

On Tuesday evening, officials from the City of Boston and the MBTA officially kicked off a planning effort that will ultimately redesign Huntington and South Huntington Avenues in Boston’s Mission Hill neighborhood. The project will likely eliminate the last segment of the Green Line where...
mass.streetsblog.org mass.streetsblog.org
 
StreetsblogMASS said:
Planning is underway for a new dedicated transitway for the E branch – which could be shared by the 66 and 39 buses as well.

The project needs to be done by 2027 for the new Type 10 trains:

mass.streetsblog.org

Huntington Ave. Redesign Will Eliminate Last Mixed-Traffic Segment of the Green Line By 2027 - Streetsblog Massachusetts

On Tuesday evening, officials from the City of Boston and the MBTA officially kicked off a planning effort that will ultimately redesign Huntington and South Huntington Avenues in Boston’s Mission Hill neighborhood. The project will likely eliminate the last segment of the Green Line where...
mass.streetsblog.org mass.streetsblog.org
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There's the online public meeting as well so hopefully there will be more details shared then.
 
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